mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. so don't wait. attack the flu virus at its source. ask your doctor about tamiflu, prescription for flu. ♪ >> this economy would roar like a rocket if people knew what the rules were and the rules weren't designed to slow us down. >> i think now more than ever a crisis of uncertainty. >> uncertainty. >> uncertainty. >> things we are certain of aren't so great for small business. >> as a small business owner, i'm used to getting the dirt kicked on me. >> obamacare is probably one of the biggest job killers we have as it relates to business. >> obamacare under employment. >> i sent in 50 more resumes but the only thing i have been able to come up with is this one part-time job. >> i have sent out a couple resume as week and i have been at it. >> hostess as a diner and

doing a bunch of part-time jobs until something full time comes up. >> what i would like to see is lower taxes and less regulation. >> the biggest thing that washington can do to help me he is get out of my way. >> still work hard and continue to do great things. >> companies across the nation are open for business, but they are facing an up hill battle from a struggling uncertain economy to the rising cost of obamacare, american businesses are working overtime tom just to stay afloat. how are they overcoming the challenges? for decades starbucks has offered every employee healthcare. schultz is here to tell you how obamacare is impacting healthcare for his employees now. first, a great group of extremely successful business owners join us. pro-computer service president anthony, forbes media chairman and editor and chief steve forbes, michelle paluso and nick -- steve, first to you. first of all, to those who don't know forbes, how big is forbes? how many employees? >> we are a a little under a

thousand. we have really down sized this immediate web age. our web site is flourishing but the print side is not nearly as big as it used to be. so we have been going through two storms. one is the economic storm, the obamacare storm and what's happening with the web. so, our whole business model has just been thrown out and so we have gone through turbulent times so we are a smaller company but today we are now a very profitable company. thank goodness. you say turbulent. if you you have some idea of what's going on. are things certain enough owe obamacare for you now. >> decisions have to make a decision a year from now if we ever get rules of the game in determining what kind of plans we can offer. we have had very generous plans in the past up right now. fins, we give our people $2,500 a year cash that they can use for their healthcare. and if they don't spend it,

they get to keep it so they have an incentive to keep costs down. we don't know if that's going to survive by the time it gets to the regulatory mall in washington. we always tried to give people not only generous plan but incentives to shop smartly. we don't know if we can do that anymore. >> michelle, how big is your business and what is it? >> -- inspiring every single day to find that day you desire. the thing offering great experiences. we have about 1100 employees around the world and about 1,000 of those are here in the united states. >> do they have health insurance? >> yes, they do. >> is obamacare presenting any sort of challenges for your business? >> well, i mean certainly there has been a lot to understand and still as steve rightly points out. for us it hasn't had a major impact on our planned costs for 2014. we offer plans for all of our employees that work more than 30 hours there have some things that we have had to evolve us a might expect.

we are watching what's going to be enacted for 2014. >> a delay for big business. has that helped you out or delaying the uncertainty for you? >> you know, i think this idea that with -- we are always having -- we are trying to hire the best most in the digital pace space. markets like new york city. for us not only how are we how we stay competitive. that's what we're waiting to sees a it emerges in 2014. >> nick, how big is your company. >> 50 employees. >> threshold. >> absolutely. >> shave it did get down to 49. >> no. first of all, what is your business. >> web casting business. technology and services for online communication. mostly corporate communications. we have a lot of enterprise clients. we have 100 employees. we do provide healthcare today. we just got our notice this week that our healthcare premium was going up 20% year.ear. 20% this year.

>> is that predictable or the fact that it's gone up 20%. it went up 19%. up 20. are you horrified now it's jumping up this high? >> it's kind of interesting. because we looked at our budget and behind payroll and technology, which is what we do, infrastructure for it and web services, healthcare sour third largest line item expense. we spend more now as a company with employees on healthcare than we spend on real estate, marketing or r and d. >> is that the same for forbes? is that your third biggest expense? >> it's the top four, obviously salaries, paper is a big one for us. and other expenses but healthcare has been a big one. and our growth in healthcare has been less than our piers precisely because we give our people incentives to say we give them money and we end up saving money. but, again, we don't know if we are going to be able to do that maybe we have to give our people a certain sum of money and say see what you can find. maybe we won't be able to

provide it anymore. we just don't know. that's a big one. we plan budgets not just for 2014 but 2015. where are we going to be. >> 20% annual growth rate in four years it will double. so three or four years from now it's going to be larger than my technology has been. we are internet based cloud company. >> that's a lot. >> assuming things trend in the direction they are trending now. >> anthony, you are a small business. how many employees do you have? >> 41. looking around the table i am the face of small business. >> 41 is the most i ever had when i ran a law firm. >> payroll comes every other thursday it seems like a lot. we just had the unfortunate news with the obamacare report is that it went up 18.25%. and some of my piers are -- peers -- i guess i should count my blessing. but it's a tough time and uncertainty really is the word right now in the economy. >> when i see that you are so close to like the 50. do you have any incentive over 50. threshold. become big business. different considerations?

>> definitely some considerations. the problem is my goal is to grow. and provide better life for my employees, for my family. and if i stopped our growth at 49, we're not reaching our potential, so i just want to dig deep and find other ways. i mean, all other businesses, all big businesses the challenge we are all going to fassments i'm not stopping the growth. i'm going to keep on going and hopefully be at 1100 or a thousand and deal with the circumstances after that. >> make you nervous though? as you see the prices jump up? you see going up 20%. >> we are self-insured. it's a little bit different. when we think about the overall panel for employees. we are competing against google and facebook and all these others in our marketplace so what's the environment like and what's in our pantry and what are the benefits getting. flexibility in terms how they work. medical benefits is a a critical piece. excited about gilt but so much more to the package that we have to do in order to be competitive.

certainly something we think about. we watch it regularly. we are looking at this. but, when you, you know, if you think where i obsess about finding, retaining the best people and doing it in a way that works for pno. there is a lot of other pieces to the equation. >> do the 1,000 employees ever say what kind of benefits do you have? the job market is so weak, you know, people want jobs so badly that they will take any job and they will take whatever health insurance you have. >> well, being under 1,000, we have to be very careful. but, one of the things that, yes, we do point out our healthcare plan, why we think it's absolutely unique among our peers. he we also point out some the other benefits but on things like matching in terms of a 401 k and things like that for younger people especially, they just want the job. and for people who are older, it's just not going to be that big of thing for them in terms of the assets they have. so, things that matter, when

we are hiring 10 or 15 years ago matter less today. he they are concerned about the job. >> i like that $2,500 incentive. i actually like the incentive. do any of you do this incentive? i like that. >> i have seen it and think it's incredibly innovative and certainly giving people information, ideas, incentive to make better decisions a great place to work. >> a sense that the white house should have listened more to business, big business, small business, in terms of developing obamacare. would have you suggested something that's not there that would have been like smarter? >> say just to jump in, i think they should start listening. i mean listen more would mean that they are actually paying attention. i mean, the vital signs of the economy are there. we are not in recovery. we have a long way to go. so, i would say open up the ears and get a poll of small business owners. >> what would you told them on obamacare. >> i would say stay the way

thing was. i'm not saying the old system was great. in 2015 when it comes to all the business owners over 50. it's going to create a major economic impact. >> we have to make sure we understand the old way wasn't working either. we live in a society where we want people to be doing better, to have more. and i think, you know, i don't think obamacare is perfect by any stretch. but there is a lot more than that could have been done differently. on your wish list, how could we have made it better for business. made it better for the consumer of medical care? better for doctors and nurses? >> less to do with the affordable care act and more to do with the environment in washington when you have one party and not another party involved. i mean, just this path that we are on in general in washington of, you know, sort of no compromise, no going at it together and trying to tackle problems together. that's concerning for the nation. >> you have the federal government imposing its will on an industry.

and they dictated that the product will look like in this industry. line item by line item. four or five versions of the product but they dictated what it is and mandated that every single american has to buy it. if you read that script in any industry you would say that is effectively a government takeover. >> people want more choices at a time when we find out there are hundreds of different kinds of cancers instead of a handful as we thought in the past. they want one size fits all. we couldn't do that 2500 today because it would go against what everyone thinks they should have. instead of giving people flexibility. they put them in a straight jacket. the. >> other thing is healthcare is 16% or 17% of the entire u.s. economy. how do you get a bunch of guys on capitol hill that do not have business experience that are maybe lifelong politicians. they are not writing payroll. they are not in the trenches. they are not making the trench. why not open it up anymore. >> none of us are saying we are not delivering healthcare or providing for our employees. we are figuring how we do it

going forward and manage it. >> one of the things they could have done is they don't believe competition works. why not remove barriers who-to-have nationwide shopping for health insurance. i live in new jersey. we have crazy regulations. can i buy almost a similar policy in pennsylvania. half the price can i in new jersey. can i buy a house in pennsylvania. i can't buy insurance. why not have nationwide shopping. have hundreds of companies compete. then you will start to see some real innovation. >> that was discussed. why wasn't that part of this. why wasn't that obstacle to that? >> ideology. >> agreed. >> just the shopping aspect? >> i mean, the whole idea of the exchanges so so you can go on and look at the market there aren't a lot of exchanges. whole point of market exchange. >> it's a government takeover. the government dictating the product and future in that product and mandating that we astins have to buy it? that's a government takeover. >> instead of truex change, we get all different kinds of products. to get on this thing. it's got to be in a very narrow range. >> look, it's not perfect but i still believe we have to do something.

the old way wasn't working. >> we all agree on that. >> you are all pro-violating medical care and everybody did think the system was broken. it was a nightmare. >> yeah. >> absolutely. i have sat in hospitals and i have seen how tough it is for people. >> that's right. and i have lived in other places where it's a lot easier. >> the whole model of a hospital has got to be revised. >> you know, talk about things like, you know, the oversubscription to emergency rooms, people going on like sinus infection to emergency room. why not put a 24/7 walk-in clinic next door so if you show up with stein news infection at 2:00 in the morning you go to. >> see more walgreen's and cvs is doing that is walk-in clinics. >> and even teledocs we offer to our employees video with with a teledoc to get a great resolution. >> take a quick break. when we come back, we will ask you to look into your

crystal ball. what do you see happening for jobs, business and economy next year. is the picture getting brighter or gloomier for americans? our business experts will answer that question next. we're aig. and we're here. to help secure retirements and protect financial futures. to help communities recover and rebuild. for companies going from garage to global. on the ground, in the air, even into space. we repaid every dollar america lent us.

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companies across the nation may be open for business. facing lots of uncertainty thanks a lot to washington. still waiting for congress and the president to come up with a budget and long-term debt solution as well. what does the solution hold for american companies, back with our business panel, steve, how are we doing? what's the prediction? >> sluggishness. it's better than it was three or four years ago. but, given the severity of the fall that we had in 2008 and 2009, we should have done much better, at least coming out of box. insterksd we are going about 2%. we should be doing 4% or 5%.

you see trouble brewing again in europe. and other parts of the world. so it's not just us. we're all in the quick sand. >> michelle? >> well, i mean, i think so before gilt i was at citigroup and do market research on surveys. they don't like uncertainty and reading headlines of uncertainty. i think that's been the plague here is that every time we seem to have something moving in the right direction. we set ourselves back. and a lot of it is caused by washington. so, i mean, i feel like when you look at underlying rates, consumer optimism, generally has been a bit better, certainly than it was. saving rates are generally a little bit better. some the raw ingredients of is a little bit better. the question is start cattizing demand. >> people are more confident that their equity in their home is there we see a little bit more confidence. >> i see -- i agree. i see it going slow.

at the end of the day, if small business owners are scared, they are not going to hire. they are going to cut things. businesses and especially small business in this country are not hiring, there is is no way we are going to go. >> this year is the first year that we started to outsource. we hired a bunch of 1099 employees. we offshored development for the first time. outsourced tech support. the idea is even though we are at 100 employees we are over the threshold we are still very conscious. >> all of my employees starting december 1st. at the are going to have less disposable as i have. cash currency keep it flowing. >> you are going to see a lot of small businesses sharing the pain with the employees. we all have three constituencies, shareholders, customers, and our employees, all equally important. we can't go out to the customers and say look, i'm raising my prices because my healthcare went up. i wish i had that option.

none of us do. >> the call you are going to get my healthcare went up so i need to you lower the prices. >> exactly. we have to share that with our ownership and our shareholders and employees. the idea is to strike that balance we do have to attract talent. >> you are all talking about the uncertainty. think thoughts and wisdom how to get washington to give that you more certainty to get that budget, to handle the debt yeelg is that absurd to think about that. >> start with the president. make it clear what he did a couple weeks ago maybe saying you can keep your healthcare plan. maybe that's the beginning where he will put real compromises on the table and get more agreement. start with business taxes. there is is a lot of con ken us is among democrats and republicans to simplify the code, reduce rates. so start with that see if you can build momentum with that but the president has got to make it clear. he will go along with a deal even if he doesn't get everything he wants. because people are not going to put their political necks out. they think it's going to be hopped off at the white

house. >> you mentioned the tax code. 3300 different provisions earmarked so however you want to characterize them. how much does the tax code really give a headache to you for making your business go? >> i have to be honest. i trust professionals. when people ask about obamacare. the bottom line for me is i know my healthcare went up 18.25%. i don't think half the people again in washington read it all. >> you know what? i don't think there is a single person on capitol hill who does his or her own taxes. self-defense because you want to be able to say if something went wrong it's tax preparer. enormously complex. >> 70,000 page document, right? the tax code? i can't even imagine that. only thing close to that is obamacare with regulations over 20,000 pages. >> i can't even imagine something being 370,000 pages. >> at the end of the day, as you know, we are not sitting around thinking about what's washington going to do to solve our problems. >> i agree. >> we are not sitting there wondering if the tax code is going to be simplified before i sell something to a consumer tomorrow. think about that our job is to innovate every single

day. that's the beautiful of america. that's what makes america great. >> the thinking on the other end is that if you are a business that's enormously successful. even more successful you are going to it hire a couple more people. to the extent that we can take foot off the throat of something like a complex tax code or whatever. not saying pay less but make it easier in terms of that helps the rest of us. >> look, it's absolutely, there is so much, you know, that i wish washington would do better. government do better. and i think it's a two party problem. but i think the opportunity still is, you know, how do you get better every day for your customers. how do you get better every day for your suppliers. how do you hire? when you are doing that we are hiring all our locations, it's important. >> take another quick break. panel, we'll be right back, later in the program. up next the chairman and ceo of starbucks is here. he says obamacare has gone off the rails. is he here to tell you why. that's next. mccallyway, now

back to "on the record." >> you see the signs on almost every corner, probably every corner across the nation and even across the world. individuals, small businesses and even a giant company like starbucks have to deal with the uncertain new challenges of healthcare. so, what's the plan for starbucks? starbucks chairman and ceo howard schultz joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> nice to see you. great opportunity to be on your show. thank you. >> a great opportunity for me. just so the viewers have understanding.

can you describe how big starbucks is? inmean, how many employees? how many shops. we have been in business since 1971, we have almost 20,000 stores in 62 countries. we employ 250,000 people around the world. and about 70 million customers a week come in our stores and we were the first company in america to provide equity in the form of stock options and comprehensive health insurance to every single emilyee, including part timers. and we put that in place in 1990. >> all right. now, that's a big deal that the part-time employees. job of many companies that do that you have 250,000 employees. how were you able to do that under the preobamacare scenario? >> well, i think this is a very important issue for almost every company today because of the affordable care act. but starbucks was way in advance of that we

a company we could not exceed the expectations of our customers unless we exceeded the expectations of our people. so, as a result of that even when we were a private company, we put in health insurance for 20 hours a week or more and that covers about 90% of all of our employees, now, obviously this is an expensive benefit. but we have proven over 20 years that reducing attrition and higher level of performance. if you look at our company's financial history two years in a row of record profits and revenue. i put a large part of that success based on the balance between achieving profitability and a social conscience and most importantly sharing our success with our people and linking shareholder value to the value for our people. and, you know, greta, this is very personal to me. i grew up in brooklyn, new york, in a family that lost its health insurance, we lived in federally subsidized housing and i saw firsthand the fracturing of the american dream when my family lost health insurance and that's the first thing i

wanted to do when we started building starbucks. >> is the new obamacare going to have any sort of appreciable impact on starbucks? if you have already been providing insurance to your full-time, part time as we march into this new era of obamacare, how does it effect you? >> well, interestingly enough, it doesn't affect us at all because the president -- the administration put in a mandate around 30 hours a week. we already do that for people who work 20 hours a week. so, ironically, starbuck's plan is better than the plan that the president and the administration has put into law. i will say i think it's very frustrating and obviously high anxiety for people across the country in their inability to kind of navigate through the web sites and the confusion. it's really unfortunate that the strategy was really fractured by a lack of execution. >> why are you so able, at starbucks so able to do this

and seemingly very successful and yet, i'm hearing now from people in small business as well as in excess is of 50 employees and large corporations that they are really terrified and worried but if you have been able to do it all along, what's the secret? >> well, i don't think it's any secret. i think we have always viewed our people not as a cost center. we never viewed this benefit as an expense. we viewed it as an investment. i think more and more companies that turn their back on their people or don't do the right thing for the communities they serve are going to be rejected by their customers. so, there is no secret sauce here. this is just an investment in our people. and we have built this into the original business plan of starbucks. we would not be successful today around the world if we didn't provide health insurance for our people and ownership for every single employee. >> but, if you have a lower profit margin and you are just getting started in a business, more than 50 employees, if you you have a lower profit margin, sort of

hard to build in healthcare costs into your business plan. and so, you know, it does put a pinch on a lot of american businesses. so i guess i'm trying to figure out why, you know, the other ones are getting pinched so. >> well, you know, i can't speak for other businesses or small businesses, i can only tell you my story. in 12987, we had 11 stores and 100 employees and a dream to create a great company in america. we have been able to do that we didn't do it on the backs of our people. we did it by sharing success with our people. i think that model has worked for us. i'm not here to preach to any other company. i am here to tell our story. and our story is really based on incident grating the success of the company with our people and creating a balance between profitability and social conscience. and we do many, many other things beyond that. you probably saw this past week that we announced that we were going to hire at least 10,000 returning veterans over the next five years. that we were going to open

up community based stores near and around bases that we would share the profits with the veterans. so, we are trying to do, i think enemy ways, really reinvent the responsibility of a company. and i think, unfortunately, the reason we have to do that and perhaps many others is because government is not going to be able to do the things they once did and government is -- has let us down. >> are you suggesting that can every company get -- do this, do you think? is it that they aren't doing it? >> again, i can't speak for every company. what i'm here to say is that those companies that recognize early on that their product is not just based on what the customer sees, the product is also based on the sense of humanity and the relationship they have with their people over the long term. i believe those businesses will be more profitability and more successful as a result of bringing their

people along with them. i also recognize that there are many small businesses in the country that are hurting as a result of the downturn in the economy and the fracturing of consumer confidence. i am not here to say what other companies should do. but, over the long term, i think we have been able to demonstrate that we have been able to build a great enduring american company. we hire 50,000 people a year. we are building a new manufacturing facility in georgia. we're trying to do everything we can to demonstrate that you can really build long-term value for shareholders and at the same time link that for long-term value for your people. >> thank you very much. as you might imagine a 24/7 business like the news, we are very dependent on coffee and caffeine and starbucks. thank you very much, howard. >> thank you, happy thanksgiving. >> coming up a college degree, even a graduate degree and a law degree, that doesn't guarantee a good job anymore. many recent graduates taking whatever they can find just to make ends meet. up next. we're going to catch up with some young people who have

been right here "on the record" before. you are going to recognize them. we are going to ask them if it is getting any better out there for them. stay with us.

this uncertain economy is tough on everyone. especially recent graduates. even with college degrees and advanced degrees, many are still unemployed or even under employed. we have invited back to "on the record" some young job seekers who were here

before. joining us from washington kevin knight and james schindler and here in new york alli silver. let me go first to you, kevin, you have got a master's degree, how is the job search? >> it's not really going at all, greta. the last thing i had was a job interview back in september. but, nothing since then. >> how you can you not -- you have sent out resumes since september? you have made heavy effort to get a job interview? >> after that one, that one i was really hoping for. it would have been a great position. and i have applied for a few things since then that some friends have tipped me off to. but at that point i'm just kind of taking a break for this month, recharging my batteries a bit there are some opportunities coming in december that some friends have tipped me off to that i'm going to apply to when they open up. >> aly, you were here on august 21st, you are part-time hostess at a diner looking for full-time work. any luck? >> yes, i actually had one job interview this past month. but it wasn't really

anything in my job field and in the end i think they went with someone who was already in their company. >> would have you liked to have had it even if it's not exactly in your field? would you have taken the job, accepted and it learned and done your best? >> oh, absolutely. at this rate i will take anything that i can get. if it was offered to me, i would have loved to be a part of their company. >> aly, are you sending out resumes? how much pavement pounding are you doing? >> yes. every week i try send out at least two resumes but i havessed in lately that there are not as many job openings especially in the holiday season. i try to apply to whatever can i find. >> james, you are a lawyer. and you were here on august 21st doing contract work and law firm hired full time but as a contractor. have you been looking for full-time work and you have gotten sips august 21st? >> hi, yes. i have been are looking. i have had three informational interviews since then and one formal interview with a government agency pause of the government shutdown the

interview was indefinitely postponed. young lawyers, too many of us. people like me who are lured with a promise of high pay when we graduated law school and we attended these law schools with government subsidized loans, government grants. since then, there is too many. the demand isn't there for us. >> kevin, are you getting dismowrged are you still hustling trying to get that job? and why do you think you haven't gotten a full-time job? until september there was a trade firm here that i was really excited about. i had had great recommendations for it i went in, i did my research on the company. it was a great back and forth with the employers. but, in the end, they just -- they went with somebody else. at that point, after multiple years since living in d.c. it was kind of the final straw for me for a little bit there haven't been that pg openings. i just kind of took a little bit of break. i picked up an extra shift for long-term sickness at coworker and part time job. i'm kind of sitting tight

until after the holidays. and opens up. >> am i right you have a master's degree in your part time work is in a bar? almost, yes. i have my competency exams left. master's degree. >> aly, are you ready to move? job pretty good. >> >> i'm open to moving wherever the job takes me. i'm taupe to getting the interview to definitely find a place to move to. >> i'm sorry, have any of you -- have any of you had these online video interviews so that, you know, you don't have to traipse half way across the country and spend a fortunate -- fortune to get an interview? have you done online interview. >> i think that's tech field. i haven't experienced any businesses that have started doing that yet in any years that i have tried. >> not too many online interviews in the legal

market in washington, d.c. for me either. >> i haven't had any online interviews. >> aly, would you do one? do you think that's a good idea? >> definitely. especially like you said for relocating. if, say i got an interview down in california, i'm all the way in new york. i have no way of flying over there for an interview right now. and i think we should definitely take advantage of the online interview process. if there. >> what are you looking for, aly? what kind of job? i'm going to put all your jobs out there. we obviously know james wants a job as our lawyer. what would you like to do? >> writing or producing. >> most likely policy would be the best fit for me. communications, media anything kind of related to policy associated or policy research. >> james, how about you? are you married to washington? are you willing to go other places to practice law? >> i'm more than willing to go other places. i'm also trying to get out of the practice of law and try to get into lobbying or consulting as well. >> is that because you have given up on law or because you haven't been able to

find a full-time job or because this is what you have always wanted to do? >> i think i'm pretty much giving up on law at this point. i have dipped my toe into the water and not something i have gotten pretty passionate about. i think living in washington i would be more interested in lobbying for something that i am passionate about. >> good luck to all of you. maybe we will get a phone call they have heard what you are looking for in terms of jobs. good luck to all of you. thank you for joining us. up next, our panel of business owners is back. ask for good advice for young people and anyone else who is looking for a job. that's next.

you just heard from hard

working and educated under employed people. turn to the business owners. what advice do they have for people looking for jobs? our business panel, steve, any advice for people looking for jobs? >> it's a lot of scut work. when you go for interview put yourself in the place of the pepper who is talking to you. get in there. why would they want to hire you? you have to know something about the company. demonstrate that you are bringing something to the table. even if you don't have vast experience. that you have done the homework for it make clear what are you you going to bring with you that distinguishes you from the 500 people that. take a job and get started even if it isn't what you want. it's amazing what these things can lead to. don't sit on the sidelines. try to get something. >> i think steve's point is really important. you you know, it's a competitive market. and, you you know, we're actually experimenting with some stuff where you do a video prescreen interview where you send us a couple minute videotape of why you

want to be -- say whatever you want. talk whatever you want. why do you want to be at gilt. you get a sense of have they done their homework? do you understand what we do? have they really read the job description? do they have experience that's relevant in the passion. that's so important to make sure that when you come to the table that you understand what you can tribute. >> i loved college but very expensive and i'm wondering now in light job market is college still relevant? >> i'm going to say no, it's not relevant. being in the technical industry what i look for is people who are blues produce. if one of my clients has a server down and they put their college degree and rub it against that server, it's not going to help them. it's their ability to think and perform and what value are they going to bring. let's be honest, when you get out out of college, yes, have you went through some classes and done some things but it's on-the-job training and on-the-job experience. when you are in that situation that's when the cream rises to the top.

>> college? >> still relevant but less relevant. i think i have four kids and he they are not in college yet. i speak from the heart here. >> maybe you don't want to pay for it? >> preschool. so i think if you are going to go to a real top college, the harvards, the prince of the word it's worth it state school. you still need that check this the book. degree. differentiation from earnings perspective, people who have college degrees versus don't. but it's the first time in my life that i'm getting sceptic call when i see we have a trillion dollars worth of outunderstanding student loans 40% almost in default now. that's the next big bailout. >> tuitions are huge and people can't get jobs. >> parents are finally asking, what are we getting for the sacrifice we are making? and that's why more and more companies are doing their own testing. they don't trust their degree anymore and grade scores anymore. they do their own testing.

google is famous for it do you have skills that they want? >> right. >> they don't trust the degree. >> that's amazing. >> it's not is college worth it or not. the statistics bear that out. what do you make of your college experience? wield love to see more stem education. we love candidates come in who have taken math and science and have some technical and i think that's the concern i have when i think about american education in general. are we losing that core? because i think if you, you know, there is different ways to go through college. we all know that i think in today's economy those skills are more and more irrelevant. we have take that sure our young people are value those and excited about those and taught in practical ways. >> we have a lot of foreign students now who don't stay here any longer. they use the engineering guys to come and stay. >> absolutely. >> isn't it part of the immigration situation they can't stay here. a lot of ways they won't stay here. >> very hard -- >> -- absolutely.

having run companies and running big teams of big engineers. excited about home markets. a bunch of them more interesting, more attractive china is more interesting and attractive than it was when you first came here. part of it is about making sure we stay. immigration reform. and part of it making sure we stay competitive in the job market. >> the second problems people who maybe have a job for 15 or 20 years. they find themselves 40 years old and now don't have a job. that's a horrible tragedy. >> well, and i think? this is where i think young people have an advantage, they assume they are going to go through a number of jobs. perhaps even careers before they retire. and one of the things i think that's going to help save us, one is the biggest educator is the employer. when you go there, you learn something new very quickly. the other thing is online. you can now get -- you don't have to go to even college anymore. can you start to get new skills or refine skills that you might have and do

something. so, i don't think it's going to be -- the key thing is get vibrant economy. people find ways to give people the skills they need. >> yep. i always feel bad though for the people, who you know, they have lost jobs. terrible about that but then they accept a job where they are under employed. they are really not meeting their skills. it's the self-esteem. you don't feel good when you have got to go out and just accept that job. >> well, my guidance to folks that are older that find themselves unemployed is to sharpen up the technology skills and make sure they're up to speed, most are now adays. make sure you work the social network as best you can don't be afraid to consult. gets you back in the game. maybe you are not earning the same fees that you would have earned in a full-time job but you are still out in the workplace, still sharping up your skills and working your social network physical vs. virtual. you feel better about yourself. because you are getting up every day. incubators here in new york city now where people can go and for $200 a month you can

rent the virtual chair and go there and work. great places to go and mingle and network. run into guys in skinny jeans carrying macs. >> don't met with the it guys. but, at the end of the day, it's a great place to go. >> gentlemen, and madam, thank you very much. thank you for our entire business panel. coming up, i have a job for you. it's actually a challenge. find out what it is next. ♪

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okay, let's go off the record for just a minute. and allow me to be a bit sappy one day of the year. i'm usually, of course, not that sappy. of course in fact, sort of a rough exterior. but, if you are a long-time member of our gretawire community and, of course, you pert be. you know that i really love the viewers of "on the record" and i love those who blog with us day in and day out on gretawire. greta wire is a fantastic community. would he no he each other. we blog about each other. sometimes saying really nice things, sometimes saying not some nice things because we get sort of all revved up about stuff from time to time. we are all human. but we all keep returning to gretawire because we have a bond. what is also fun though is that with our get numbers and bond we work together from time to time. remember super storm sandy and new york and new jersey:

typhoon in philippines. yes, those always fun to do something nice and always fun to do something together. here is what i want everyone to do and that means you and i will do it too. i want you tonight to make a phone call to someone who might be alone or sick or misses you or someone that you have been feuding with a long time. make that call this thanksgiving day and say hello. you probably actually have been meaning to make this call and have put it off. so, do it now. and then, of course, go to gretawire.com and report in that you did i will do it, too. happy thanksgiving, always nice to be here. and thank you for being with us for this "on the record" special. open for business. go to gretawire.com right now. of course, after you make that phone call but go to gretawire.com alsos because we want to know what you think about business in america. if you have any ideas, or you know of any jobs for young americans or just have

solutions to jump start business in america. then share it with the gretawire community. gretawire.com, let's get the economy moving together. good night. we will see you tomorrow at 7 p.m. thanksgiving and happy ha too. we'll see you back here tomorrow. special report is next. very little res the very little rest for owe bow ma care supporters. this is "special report." >> good evening. i'm doug mckelway.i'm president obama and his guests e enjoy thanksgiving tidings of turkey, ham and stuffing and a choice of nine pies. there are likely techies toiling over an obamacare website that is supposed to beg fixed. at least almost fixed this weekend. d. white house correspondent wendell tells us it's a big job getting even bigger. >> as the president and his